Frequently Asked Questions

TUTTLE ORCHARDS
is asked many questions about their orchard and its products. Here are the answers to the frequent questions many people like you have.

What apples are used in cider?

How do you make cider?

Can we watch you make cider? 

Is frozen cider just as good as fresh? 

Can I freeze my own cider?

Is your cider pasteurized?

Are your apple trees sprayed?

Is it safe to eat apples off the tree?

MARKET HOURS (Open year round)
Monday-Wednesday   9:00 AM to 6:00 PM   Thursday - Saturday    9:00 AM to 7:00 PM    Closed Sundays

* * Winter Hours * *     November  -  April      Close at 6 PM 

U-PICK HOURS (Call for availability
& variety)

Monday - Saturday     9:00 AM-6:00 PM   Closed Sundays

What apples are used in cider?

Our cider is made from select apples of several varieties blended together  We use apples off the tree that are graded according to quality.  The premium grade of apples are sold in our market, and the second quality apples are used for cider.  This includes small, poorly colored, and misshapen apples.  Any insect eaten or rotten apples are thrown out and not used in the cider.  All the cider apples are washed twice, once on the packing line and again on the cider processing line after they have had a chlorine soak. 

How do you make cider?

The cider is made using a stainless steel press.  The apples are ground up something like a blender would do.  They are then placed in a cloth and squeezed under pressure to force the juice through the cloth.  The juice collects in a tank under the press.  After the cider is pressed out and filtered, it is put thru an Ultra-Violet (UV) process and then into stainless steel tanks to be cooled and held for 24 hours so sediment can settle out.  It is then jugged and put in refrigeration until it is needed in the market. 

Can we watch you make cider? 

You are always welcome to watch us making cider.  We usually make it twice a week in September and October and once a week November through March.  We do not make cider in the spring and summer but rather make extra in the winter, which we sell frozen during these months.  We suggest you call first to arrange a time.   

Is frozen cider just as good as fresh?  Can I freeze my own cider?

Yes, freezing cider does not change the taste of the cider at all.  Just be sure to thaw it completely and shake it up before drinking.  If you want to freeze some at home, remove a small amount of the cider from the jug and put the jug in the freezer. 

Is your cider pasteurized?

We have been receiving a lot of comments lately about the issue of pasteurization of cider and whether we will be pasteurizing our cider this year.  Let me give you some background on the subject and explain what we will try to do for the fall, 2003.

First, there is a legitimate concern with cider and certain pathogens, namely Salmonella, Listeria, E. coli and especially E. coli O157:H7.  There have been 9 cases in the United States where apple juice or orange juice was contaminated with a pathogen, making several people sick and one child died.  The USDA studied these cases to come up with their rule. These are the facts and we must take precautions accordingly.  This isn't like the Alar scare where you would need to eat several hundred pounds of apples daily for a lifetime and you might get cancer.  E. coli O157:H7 can be harmful when less than 20 cells are ingested which is a much lower threshold be hundreds of times than most other similar pathogens.  E. coli  O157:H7 can survive in cider even with it's low pH and can reproduce at 40 F.  These conditions keep most other pathogens from becoming a problem.  Where does the E. coli come from?  As you probably know, it comes from fecal matter. that's why we wash our hands after going to the bathroom.  Animals also carry it in their system, especially cattle and deer.  Most of the cases so far have been traced  back to an orchard where cattle were allowed to graze and apples were picked up off the ground to make cider.  They were contaminated with manure.  We obviously don't graze cattle in our orchards but deer are everywhere.  All cider producers are advised not to pick up any apples from the ground and we have observed this advisory for several years.  That is partially why you see so many apples on the ground it you are out picking your own apples.  We really  have no use for these apples today.  The other obvious source is from employees who don't wash.  We try to watch this at all times but you can never be 100% sure.

The bottom line is, there is a potential real problem.  We try to do the best job we can making cider and have improved our methods markedly over the past four years.  All apples are washed twice and run thru a chlorine drench before being pressed.  We have an all stainless steel line which is sanitized before and after each making.  We use a very good grade of apples. I believe we have one of the cleanest operation in the state.  Can I guarantee that our  cider will never be contaminated with E. coli or some other pathogen?  NO!

The Federal Food and drug Administration (FDA) published new regulations in January 2001 covering production of fruit juices including apple juice.  It covers 64 pages in the Federal Register.  In a nut shell, it says the following; There is a documented problem.  If you are going to sell juice to the public and be involved in intrastate/interstate commerce, you must comply with the rule.  You must implement a Hazard Analysis & Critical Control Point (HACCP) program that will reduce the pathogens by a factor of 100,000.  For the smallest producers, (us) they must implement the program by January, 2004.

There are three commercially available processes to achieve the results the rule calls for that we could use on our scale. The first and oldest is heat pasteurization.  Two relatively new processes are Ultra Violet Light (UV) cold pasteurization and Ozone gas treatment.  Both of these processes have been used for years on other things but have only been used on fruit juices for a few years. Orchards around Indiana are using all three of these processes with heat pasteurization probably the  most popular.  We are using UV in our process.  It is a fairly simple piece of equipment to operate and is self contained.  It is a box about 2' x 2' x 4' with all automated controls.  You just pump the cider thru the box and it adjusts the flow so the cider receives the proper exposure to kill the pathogens.  It is somewhat less expensive to purchase than the heat pasteurization equipment but is still costs over $16,000.00 for the box.

Will heat pasteurization or UV ruin your cider?  NO!.  This was our concern as well when the issue first came up.  Very few of the orchards in Indiana had any experience with pasteurization.  We were sure this would put us out of business because our cider would taste just like Mott's apple juice.  No offense to Mott's.  What we found was that if the process was done correctly, the quality was not diminished.  I have drank the same cider before and after heat pasteurization and UV treatment several times and can not tell which is which.  It does taste different but is neither better or worse, just different.  We plan to give you the same opportunity to try it both ways.

Here are some of the reasons why heat pasteurization or UV isn't going to ruin you cider.  First, heat pasteurization is more correctly called "flash pasteurization" which means it is brought to a temperature of 160 degrees F. very quickly, held for 6 seconds and immediately cooled down again.  UV treatment is a similar quick process although the cider isn't heated.  This is adequate to get the results desired but it doesn't greatly effect the physical character of the juice.  Don't confuse flash pasteurization with sterilization.  Mott's apple juice, noodle soup and medical instrument are sterilized.  They can be stored for months on the shelf and will remain good.  All pathogens are killed and all enzymes, etc. in the product are destroyed so it remains stable.  It needs no refrigeration.  Milk is pasteurized. It must be refrigerated and it will spoil after a relatively short time compared to apple juice in a can.  You will still need to refrigerate our cider.  This brings up an issue I have with the Supermarkets.  For the last several years, they have been displaying their pasteurized cider on the floor, unrefrigerated for weeks at a time.  This has done more to ruin the sale of cider than any scare.  The cider spoils and tastes terrible and people assume this is how all pasteurized  cider tastes.  The State Department of Health won't do anything because they say it is a quality issue but isn't harmful.  Finally, an axiom form the computer age applies here.  "Garbage In - Garbage Out".  If the cider is made form superior apples and is a superior blend, it still will be superior after heat pasteurization or UV treatment.  If it's made out of junk, it still will be junk after processing.  I think after people try our cider, they will accept it and be thankful for the added assurance of safety.

Tom Roney, Cider maker.
 

 

Are your apple trees sprayed?

  All our apple trees are sprayed several times over the growing season.  This troubles some people, but it is a fact of life it you want to grow a saleable crop of apples in the Midwest economically.  The need to spray is due to the climate.  During the growing season we have warm, wet conditions with frequent rains.  This is ideal weather for growing crops, but it is also ideal for insects, diseases, and weeds.  The more you grow of any one crop the bigger the problem.  While one tree in your backyard may escape some pests, several trees tend to attract and harbor lots of pests. 

To lessen the amount of pesticides in the environment and save money, we try to spray only when it is necessary.  Pesticides are our greatest expense after labor in growing apples (close to $15,000.00 per year).  We would love to not use any pesticides, however this is just not practical.  We do use a technique called Integrated Pest Management (IPM) to help lessen the amount of spraying and cost.  An example would be controlling mites.  European Red Spider Mites are extremely small spiders that attack apples by sucking the juices from the leaves.  These mites can actually kill all the leaves on the tree.  Luckily, they have several natural enemies like ladybugs, lacewings, and other mites.  We try to use pesticides that do not kill these natural predators, but encourage them to kill the harmful mites.  Another reason we need pesticides is disease.  Unlike insects, diseases generally must be prevented in the first place rather than eradicated later. 

You can find organically grown apples in some stores along with other fruits and vegetables.  You must realize most of these are grown in a desert environment where disease and insects pressure are greatly reduced and water is almost totally supplied by precious irrigation water.  Here in Indiana we must continue to use pesticides.

Is it safe to eat apples off the tree?

Yes, generally it is safe to eat apples right off the tree even though they have been sprayed.  You should only pick and eat apples from the trees we direct you to because some others may have been sprayed recently and are not ready for picking.  Apples get ripe over an extended period of time, and they are not all ready to pick at the same time.  All pesticides have two time frames established for them by The Environmental Protection Agency.  A restricted entry time which is the time after spraying before you can reenter the field, usually a few hours to a few days and a pre-harvest interval which is the time you must wait after spraying the apples before harvesting them.  We follow these closely at the orchard.  Time, sunlight, and rain all work to break down the pesticides.  When the pre-harvest interval has expired, the pesticide is generally harmless to man, beast, or bug.  You can wipe your apple off on your pant leg and eat it.  The dirt you may see on the apples is simply rain and dirt from the wind.  They are perfectly safe to eat.